The 2022 Beijing Olympics: How Should Christians Respond?
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Patrick Miller: I'm Patrick Miller.
Keith Simon: And I'm Keith Simon and we choose Truth Over Tribe.
Patrick Miller: Do you? Keith, I want to start off this episode with a little hot take.
Keith Simon: Okay. On what?
Patrick Miller: On the Olympics. The Winter Olympics.
Keith Simon: Are you a big fan of the Olympics like curling?
Patrick Miller: Curling is my favorite winter Olympic sport.
Keith Simon: It's everybody's because it's so ridiculous. And yet it's fun and it looks like shuffleboard.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So have you heard of what's it called? It's like ADS. These videos where people listen to someone make sounds on a microphone and it's supposed to sooth these. So they might scrape a soap with a knife and they're listening to the sound of the knife.
Keith Simon: That does not sound soothing to me.
Patrick Miller: But it's a whole genre. I mean, this is a big thing. I feel like that is the equivalent of curling. It's like that's the sound of them... They're scrubbing and they're brushing, it's very soothing to watch the stone rolled down. I don't know.
Keith Simon: So will you be camped in front of your television every night checking out the Olympics?
Patrick Miller: Yeah. I'll even put my headphones on so I can get a full experience of the sounds.
Keith Simon: Will put you to sleep.
Patrick Miller: No.
Keith Simon: Yeah. Okay, so what's the hot take?
Patrick Miller: Oh, this my hot take. The Beijing Winter Olympics are the moral equivalent of the 1936 Berlin Olympics.
Keith Simon: Okay. So you're thinking that's because of the parallel between the Holocaust, which was on the horizon in Germany and what's going on in China right now?
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So if you go back to 1936, the world is becoming increasingly aware of Hitler, this fascist leader who is leading Germany to greater levels of wealth and scientific advancement, and yet on the flip side, it's becoming increasingly apparent... Now this is before social media. So things are always foggier, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that he has these draconian ways of dealing with the Jewish population inside of Germany. Now you haven't gotten to the Holocaust or anything on that level yet, but you're beginning to see that happen. And so lots of people at the time were a little bit concerned about participating in these Olympics.
Keith Simon: When you hear the 1936 Olympics, what athlete stands out to you?
Patrick Miller: I know who you're getting at.
Keith Simon: Are you sure?
Patrick Miller: You're just trying to embarrass me.
Keith Simon: Are you sure?
Patrick Miller: What was his name? It was a black track athlete.
Keith Simon: I love stuff like this where Patrick's... He's very familiar with the German economy in the 1930s, but he doesn't know the name, Jesse Owens.
Patrick Miller: Thank you.
Keith Simon: And how Jesse Owens went and showed up Hitler over there because that's what I think of when I think of the 1936 Olympics. That's the public school version. And so there were people who were debating in the United States about whether we should be engaged or not. This is a whole America first campaign. If I remember right and Charles Lindbergh is involved in this and it's a big discussion, but the United States goes over participates. In a lot of people's mind, legitimized Hitler, legitimized Germany and maybe paved the way for him to do some of the horrible things that he did in the coming years. And now the question is, should we be a part of the Beijing Olympics? President Biden has declared a diplomatic boycott, other nations have joined in on that, but no one has boycotted the Olympics and they're not going to send their team to the Olympics. And so the question is, are we legitimize China and some of the atrocities that they are currently committing? Yeah.
Patrick Miller: So I realize some listeners might be a bit surprised by what I'm saying, by the comparison that I'm making. So let me just lay out some facts, the CCP... So let's pause here for a second, because we're going to use some language. When you talk about China, you're talking about a nation. I know that's obvious. When you're talking about Chinese people, you're talking about a ethnic group. When you talk about the CCP or the Chinese Communist Party, you are talking about the party which is currently in control of China. These are three very different things and it's really helpful to keep them separate because one of the things that happens when you talk about China is people think that you're saying something negative about Chinese people. People who are bearers of God's image, who He loves profoundly. My response to that is always," No, I care about the Chinese Communist Party and what they're doing precisely because they are causing great harm to Chinese image bearers. And so we're going to be really careful throughout this podcast to not equivocate the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party with Chinese people or even the nation of, because those are three different things. Our focal point though is on the CCP. So let's get into a little history. So the CCP, they ascend to power in the late'40s. This continues on into the'50s and the'60s. You end up getting the cultural revolution. These are all happening consecutive to one another.
Keith Simon: So this is under chairman Mao Zedong is the leader of the Communist Party that's pushing all these revolutions, Correct?
Patrick Miller: Yes, exactly. He's an interesting figure because he saw himself as a poetic artistic figure. I mean, he said," Look, the Chinese soul, the Chinese person is a blank slate upon which I'm going to write the poetry of the future." Now that sounds really nice until you realize that what he meant was murdering somewhere between 45 and 100 million Chinese people. That was how he was going to write on the blank slate.
Keith Simon: Is that hunting people down and killing them that disagreed or is that 45 million to 100 million people killed through the great famines that went through because of the revolution?
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So the answer is both. They were hunting people down who were dissenting with a party. Who didn't want anything to do with the communist revolution that was happening. So that's part of the people who are murdered. The other part though, is what you just said. You have these incredible famines that are happening at the time. One way to deal with your enemies is to direct food to those whom you agree with and to make sure that food doesn't go to those with whom you disagree. And again, it's really hard to know what the numbers are because the CCP's never actually released the amount of people who died during this period. Now, let's fast forward to the present. I mean, there are enormous human rights abuses that happened between the'50s all the way up to today. We could talk about Tibet and the cultural genocide that happened in Tibet when the Chinese Communist Party forcibly took over that region and effectively again, tried to wipe out Tibetan culture by wiping out Tibetan people. But I want to come into the present and talk about what's happening to Uyghurs in China right now.
Keith Simon: Yeah, and maybe you've heard about the Uyghurs being talked about in the news media. If you're like me, it is a little bit confusing. So let's do like a 32nd explainer on the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs are an ethnic group. So they are part of a group called Turkic people and they live in the Northwest portion of China. It's a landlocked area. If you looked on a map, you would see it's next to a bunch of those stans like Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. The Uyghurs are predominantly found in that area of China. I think over 12 million Uyghurs live there. And the next biggest country with the Uyghur population is far smaller than that. I think it's Kazakhstan. The Uyghurs are predominantly Muslim. They started to adopt the Muslim religion in about the 10th century, and by the 16th century, they were fully committed to it. So as the popular explodes, more Han Chinese, which is the dominant ethnicity of Chinese people, the Han people move out into this territory. They were starting to get more favored jobs. There is a political extremist element, just like there are among many groups. There's a political extremist element among the Uyghurs. And so the Chinese government, the CCP use that as an excuse to move in and begin to control the Uyghur people and then do some really horrible things, which I know you're going to get to in a second. But if you ask the question, why does the CCP hate the Uyghurs? I think a lot of it comes down to religion. We know that the party is atheistic and they hate the religious views of the Uyghur population.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. And this goes back to that concept of rooting out ideologies, which disagree with the Chinese Communist Party. Again, 45 million to 100 million people. That's part of the reason why they executed these people because they wanted nothing to do with communism. And obviously, the Uyghur population being Muslim, having a theistic view of reality, not buying to the Communist Party's ideology is a existential threat, at least in the eyes of the government. Again, we're talking about 12 million people in a country, which is, I think about 1.5 billion people who currently live in China. So it's not a giant portion of their population. And yet it's still seen as an existential threat. It will broker no deals with anyone who disagrees with the party's line.
Keith Simon: And this Northwest part of China, the Uyghurs live in is called, if I'm pronouncing it right, the Xinjiang province and has a lot of natural resources. So that's one reason that China wants to control this area is they want access to those resources.
Patrick Miller: So as you fast forward, 9/ 11 happens in the US and this begins to raise awareness about again, extremist Muslim elements in all kinds of countries, but that really becomes an excuse in the CCP's hands. There is not a long history of any form of significant terrorism at the hands of Uyghurs, but because this is happening, it's in the international water beginning in the late 2000s, then leading up all the way in today, they begin to enforce increasingly draconian measures to control the population. So if we bring it up to the present where we're at right now, and again, of course the CCP allows no journalists inside of these facilities, but you're able to see what are essentially concentration camps. Massive, massive jailing facilities. We've seen these on satellite images. They're surrounded by walls. They've got barbed wire where they are forcibly moving Uyghurs and inside these facilities, people who have escaped have told their stories, you have forced labor. So slavery, you have sexual abuse, women who are being sexually taken advantage of, and they are forcibly sterilizing people. I mean, one stat that just absolutely blew my mind, I think it's absolutely tragic, is that there's been a 60% reduction in birth rates in this region. So they're sterilizing so many people that you're seeing a massive reduction in the amount of people being born. That's one way to kill a culture. That's one way to kill a people group. You might not be executing them on the spot, but you're preventing them from having children.
Keith Simon: Remember when I said that one, the reasons that the CCP hates the Uyghurs is because they're religious and therefore they're cracking down on the practice of the Islamic faith. So things like having a beard or owning a Quran. Now, if you're familiar with-
Patrick Miller: Or refusing to drink alcohol.
Keith Simon: ...if you're familiar with Islam, you know that those are part of the practices of that faith. So they're doing more than just targeting ethnicity. They're targeting a certain religious group. And as Christians, we should pay attention to that. We should care about the religious freedom of all people, not just Christians.
Patrick Miller: And to add to that, it's not just being imprisoned for your religious beliefs, they're being imprisoned for future crimes. So the logic behind it is we have to put you inside of these concentration camps, because we know that if we leave you out, you're going to commit acts of terrorism against us. So you're being convicted of something you haven't done. And then once you're in there, not only are we going to sterilize you, we are going to forcibly reeducate. We're going to make you change your mind so that you see the world the way we see the world.
Keith Simon: In 2013, the CCP tells all the Uyghurs that they need to come for a health clinic and they get all this biological data from them, blood type, hair samples, DNA, and they're using that now to monitor them and control them. And then in 2019, what you find is that the Uyghur population is told they must put GPS tracking units on their cars. So the CCP is using their technological advantage to track, maintain, monitor what the Uyghurs do. It's combination of evil with Orwellian technocratic, technological advances. And they're using it all for the worst purposes to kill, to eliminate a whole population. Genocide is on the table here. That's probably the proper word to use when talking about what's happening there.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So again, we don't know the specific numbers of Uyghurs who are in these concentration camps. The best estimates range from about 300, 000 to a million people out of a population of 12 million. So this is a massive proportion of the population that's being forced inside of these concentration camps and people who escape or people who are related to Uyghurs, who are, let's say, living in the United States or a different country, they are being bullied by of the CCP. They're saying," If you come and you speak out, if you say what happened to you while you were in one of these concentration camps, or if you try to speak out against, on behalf of one of your family members, your family members will pay." Which again, explains why it can be really difficult to get information out of these camps. Now, obviously Keith and I are concerned by this. I think anyone who values human rights, especially Christians who say all humans are made in the image of God, they have a tremendous value in His eyes, a inestimable value in His eyes. Their lives are treasured by him. We should care when we see these things happen. Just like by the way, every person I know. If you said," Hey, go back to 1936." Do you think the United States should care about Germany's treatment of the Jews at that point? I don't know a person who would try to argue." Yeah, no, we shouldn't care about that. That's not a big deal. We shouldn't have stepped in. There's nothing we should have done."
Keith Simon: But that's in hindsight, right? You're saying now, in hindsight, looking back, we see that. But if you were there in that moment, that was an argument. That was a discussion. Now we're supposed to learn from those historical conversations and what happened and not let them play out again. So in Germany, there was obviously the Holocaust and the phrase that has come out of that is never again. We're never going to stand by and watch genocide against a religion or against an ethnicity. We're not doing that ever again. That's a really big deal. So we have Holocaust museums, we have Holocaust remembrance days.
Patrick Miller: We've written human rights statements. We've created all kinds of...
Keith Simon: There are books over this. So we're never going to do this again, but I think we're getting ready to do it again. I mean, I think we're right in the middle of doing it again, not in Germany with Jews, but instead in China with the Uyghurs under the authority of the CCP.
Patrick Miller: And so, again, back to my hot take, the Beijing Winter Olympics are something like the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Some people hearing me say that even despite some of the facts we just laid out are going to say that is a overwrought comparison. That went a bit too far.
Keith Simon: One of the people making the point that we are making too big, a deal about the Uyghurs is a minority owner of the Golden State Warriors.
Patrick Miller: He owns like 2% of the Golden State Warriors.
Keith Simon: Right. 2%. Not very much, but I don't know how much you know about the Golden State Warriors, but they're located in San Francisco, which I think everyone acknowledge is one of the most progressive cities in the United States and the Golden State Warriors themselves, the team, the coaches, they have stood for very progressive causes. Steve Kerr, who's the coach and a fantastic coach. They've won NBA championships together. He speaks out on all kinds of bad things that are happening in America fair and fine enough. But when this owner, this owner of 2% of the team and I could try to say his name, but I'm going to butcher it. So I won't even go down there road. Can you say his name Patrick?
Patrick Miller: No. I'm not going to attempt.
Keith Simon: No, I'm not going to attempt, but he was on a podcast called All- In and it's a tech podcast, investment podcast.
Patrick Miller: A venture capital.
Keith Simon: They're talking about money and that stuff. In the middle of the podcast, one of the hosts mentions the Uyghurs. And so this owner of the Golden State Warriors, he interrupts and he says, no one cares about the Uyghurs.
Patrick Miller: No.
Keith Simon: You don't believe me? Here's the clip.
Speaker 7: Nobody cares about what's happening to the Uyghurs. Okay. You bring it up because you really care. I think that's nice that you care-
Speaker 8: What? What do you mean nobody cares?
Speaker 7: ...the rest of us don't care.
Speaker 8: Wait, you're saying you personally don't care?
Speaker 7: I'm telling you a very hard, ugly truth. Of all the things that I care about, yes it is below my line. Okay. Of all the things that I care about it is below my line.
Patrick Miller: Okay. When I hear this, there's part of me that's just terribly confused. What do you mean the force sterilization, the forced slavery, the forced imprisonment of 300, 000 to a million people is below your level of concern. But he goes on in this interview, which is actually fascinating to listen to just from a worldview perspective to essentially explain on the one hand, he says," I'm not going to throw stones at a different country until we deal with our own problems. Why would I do that." There's part of me that says, okay, I understand what you're saying there, but then he goes in further and he tries to equivocate. He essentially says, that's really no worse than anything that's happening here in America. In fact, America in its prison system is probably far worse than what's happening to the Uyghurs over there.
Keith Simon: In fact, he goes even further and he says that if you, as an America can, are looking at what's happening in the Uyghurs and you're concerned about it and you think it's a problem and you're speaking out against it, you are deplorable. That's his word. You are acting deplorably because you should be concerned about what's happening here in the United States. This guy says that the Uyghurs are below his line of caring, but above his line of caring are things like healthcare and climate change. I don't know if I believe that, to be frank with you. I think he's just virtue signaling and he knows that in his progressive-
Patrick Miller: But he says we are virtue signaling.
Keith Simon: ...he's virtue signaling because in his progressive circles, to say you're four climate change, that's your badge of saying I'm a good person. Or to say you're for healthcare or maybe Black Lives Matter or something like that. It's what gets you points with your own people. I'm not sure he carries about anything. Because when you listen to him more, what you learn is what he cares about is making money.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. Well, at one point did you catch him where he actually tries to assign economic value to human rights abuses? He says, well, let's assign an economic value to the abuse happening to Uyghurs and then let's assign an economic value to the abuse of black and brown bias in the United States. And then you're going to tell me it's worse for them. And it's just this bizarre. It's like why are we talking about economic... They're both human lives. And by the way, I refuse to choose. No I care about both because I care about human rights.
Keith Simon: Well, they clearly don't care about human rights. They care about making money. What you have is this phenomenon where someone who is super wealthy is this guy is-
Patrick Miller: He's a venture capitalist.
Keith Simon: ...super wealthy, now feels like he can speak out. And as an expert on everything. And you have to remember that this is a podcast. I mean, he has a microphone in front of him. He knows this is going out in the venture capital circles. He knows that lots of people are listening to this. This is not some leaked audio from a bar conversation. He very intentionally, willfully, publicly is saying, I just don't care about what's happening over there. In fact, he goes so far is to say," I don't even think China is a dictatorship." Now, why is he saying all that?
Patrick Miller: Because he's not in China.
Keith Simon: He wants... Well, fair point-
Patrick Miller: That's why. Go ahead.
Keith Simon: ...but he wants to make money. He wants to do business in China. And because he wants to do business there, he doesn't want to offend the Chinese.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. In fact, the podcast has pressed his back because he is interested in well, what are we supposed to do? And the podcast says," Well actually you as a guy who owns a venture capital firm, you could do a lot." He goes," You could refuse to do business in that province. You could refuse to do business with anybody who's associated with what's happening to the Uyghurs. That might have a real effect, an economic effect on China, which would cause them to rethink their decision." He goes," So you have something you can do." And again, he outright refuses. He says," No, I'll take money from anyone." Is essentially his response to it.
Keith Simon: Now, this guy's gotten a lot of attention because he's an individual who articulated this on a podcast and did it in a really poor way. I think he tried to walk it back. He never apologized for it, but he tried to walk it back in the following days, but he's not alone. There are a lot of people, a lot of businesses that are willing to overlook China's human rights abuses in order to make money. For example, Apple is top of the list. Consider that they have made a commitment to spend$ 275 billion over the next five years in China. And they are now getting AirPods made by a Chinese company called Luxshare. In order to do that, they've taken the business away from Taiwan. And so here you have Apple who is investing a lot in China, giving them a lot of money, unwilling to speak out about their human rights abuses. And why is that? Because China has a huge market. Because they want to be able to sell their product in China. And that's what you see over and over is this constant theme that I'm willing to be quiet about China's human rights abuses so that I can get access to the market.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. I mean, to lean in on cook one further, I mean he is essentially promising Beijing to build their domestic tech abilities, their ability to create technology, their ability to not rely on other countries for technology. That's what he's invested in. Now again, it makes perfect sense. If your bottom line is all that matters, he's making some really smart decisions right now. But if there's something that matters more than bottom lines like human life, human dignity, then this does matter. The business world is not remotely alone. Another place this is happening is in the entertainment industry. LeBron James has become quite famous for being an activist influencer if you will. He's somebody who's willing to speak out about what he sees as injustices and wrongdoing in our country. But when it comes to China, LeBron takes an about face. So again, go back into the past. There was a Houston Rockets, general manager who made some statements, which were negative about the CCP.
Keith Simon: All he said was free Hong Kong. Remember he tweeted free Hong Kong and LeBron came out and said he shouldn't have done that. He was misinformed. He hadn't educated himself. And the reason is because China was very upset that the NBA, which is hugely popular in China, was acknowledging what was happening in Hong Kong. And so you think," Well, why is LeBron quiet about this? What does it matter?" Well, remember that LeBron had starred in the Space Jam sequel and he was trying to get that movie released in China. But there's a lot of people who want to make movies. So Warner Brothers had made Space Jam, but Disney had made their own movies in China. And in the credits thanked the people, the government of Xi Jinping exactly where the Uyghur atrocities are happening because they wanted to release their movie in China. So everybody wants access to the market and they're willing to say or do whatever or not say or whatever, critique someone who says free Hong Kong to get access to it.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. I mean, when that general manager said that, they stopped playing Houston Rockets NBA games in China and the NBA stood to lose about$ 400 million as a result. And so again, we're asking about motives here. If you care about human rights, awesome. I want you to care about human rights, but you don't get to say except for when it cost my wallet, something. That's when I'll back out. And the funny thing about Space Jam, by the way, the CCP had its cake and ate it too because LeBron very, very loud defender of the CCP that his movie get played there. Nope.
Keith Simon: No. And so it didn't make any money because I heard it was really bad, but here I want to show an alternative. Well, is there an option to this? I don't know if you're familiar Patrick, with this guy in the Boston Celtics right now. He's an NBA journeyman. He's been on several teams. His name's Enes Kanter, and he's Turkish. The country of Turkey has issued almost like death threats against this guy in the past, because he's spoken out against the problems that are happening in his own home country in Turkey. And then he has started to speak out against the atrocities in China in ways that embarrass or at least call out LeBron James. By the way, Enes Kanter has recently changed his name. It's now Enes Kanter Freedom is his name in which I think it was interesting, but here's what he tweeted before the Celtics were getting ready to play the Lakers, which is LeBron's team. He tweeted out," Money over morals for the king." Of course, referring to LeBron James." Sad and disgusting how these athletes pretend they care about social justice. They really do shut up and dribble when big boss says so. Did you educate yourself about the slave labor that made your shoes or is that not part of your research?" So here Enes Kanter right before a big game with LeBron is going after him and trying to call him out. He wore a T- shirt before the game that said," Taiwan is not China." Now I think that was in relation to the John Cena stuff that he had done. Anyway, guess what China did? They have now banned Boston Celtics games from their country. You can't watch the Celtics now. So the threat is real. I mean, China really will hit your pocket book and that's evidently enough to get people to not care about some people's human rights.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So If you live China and if you disagree with the ideology of the Chinese Communist Party, your life, your welfare is at risk. If you're outside of China, your pocketbook is at risk. It seems like, at least for us Americans, we're very, very willing to compromise on our morals, to compromise on our moral outrage when it affects the bottom line.
Keith Simon: Can we just do one more because I think we need another example of somebody who I think is doing it right. So you're probably familiar that back in November of 2021, there was a tennis player, she'd been to the Olympics. She's a Chinese tennis player. Her name's Peng Shuai. I hope I'm pronouncing her name right. Anyway, she put out a social post that said that she had been sexually abused by a leader in the Communist Party.
Patrick Miller: A top ranking official.
Keith Simon: Yeah, I think it was a part of the Chinese Politburo. I mean, we're talking upper level. What I read their relationship was super complicated, but here's what's not unclear at all. As soon as she posted that, all her social media posts were scrubbed and she disappeared.
Patrick Miller: Within minutes, they were disappeared.
Keith Simon: Gone and she disappeared. And no one heard from her. No one knew anything about out her and the Women's Tennis Association, the WTA, they took a different approach. Their president, Steve Simon came out and said," Hey, where is she? We want to see her. We want to talk with her." And when that didn't happen, he canceled all WTA events in China and took a very hard line firm stance. Even though that was of cost him, his organization money and many people like Martina Navratilova, the William sisters, Federer, Nadal, all these people have been coming out and saying," Hey, where is Peng Shuai?" Now the Australian Open is happening over in Australia, obviously right now and who's buried in Grant's Tomb. Yeah. That's where it is, of course. And somebody came out with a T- shirt that had," Where is Peng Shuai?"
Patrick Miller: She was a Chinese national who made the shirt, which again, kudos to her. I mean, the amount of risk she's putting on herself and her family that still is in China.
Keith Simon: She won't give her name out publicly, but the Chinese government, the CCP, they know who she is or they'll figure it out in like five minutes if they want to. And the Australian open, what do they do?" Oh, well we can't have you wear T- shirts that say that." And they had some reason for it." We don't let political statements be said at the Australian Open." There was so much public outcry that they have now allowed some people in those T- shirts to come to the event.
Patrick Miller: How did the CCP respond? They're not showing it.
Keith Simon: They refused to show the Australian Open in China. Now, if you're Australia, you're right next to China. They're not like some power across the other side of the world. They are right next's door. And they have a lot of influence and control there of course. But what I'm trying to say is there are different approaches to this. You don't have to do the owner approach where you just say," Well, this isn't a big deal. It's not above my line of caring." You don't have to do the Apple approach or the LeBron James, the Hollywood approach. You can say," No, we won't do this. We will speak out even if it costs us." In fact, I start believing you care about what you say when it costs you. I'm not sure I believe that you care what you say when it helps your business, but what cost you business, cost you dollars, you start getting my attention. And that's what Enes Kanter is doing. That's what the WTA is doing. And others, I think are becoming more bold to say," This is wrong. We're not going to stand by. Never again." We said never again about the Holocaust and we meant it. We're not going to stand by and silently watch this happen.
Patrick Miller: Absolutely. In fact, I have tremendous for Joe Biden being willing to make a statement about this and to actually in a sense, put our money where our mouth is on this particular issue.
Keith Simon: Yeah. It's hard. I mean, what can you do? Nobody is suggesting we should start World War III over this. And yet you have to do something. You can't just sit by. Because if you just sit by, then they think they can get away with it. So Biden saying that we're not going to send diplomats to the Olympics. I mean, maybe you think it's not enough. Maybe you think it's too much, but he's doing something and I appreciate that. We have to respect that.
Patrick Miller: Absolutely. So, big picture here. I'm starting off with this equivalency. The Beijing Olympics and the Berlin Olympics being something similar. No one is questioning at this point where you and I stand Keith, but there are people who would say that is overwrought. That we should turn a blind eye to the CCP. It's not that bad. And gosh, things are so much worse here in America. Again, a comment that I find to be highly ironic because here in America, we're allowed to be critical of the human rights violations of the wrong things that are happening. No, one's going to put you in jail. No one's going to take away your business. But if you said those exact same things in China, you would bear the consequences.
Keith Simon: Yeah. We need to be clear that, of course, we have lots of problems in the United States. Human rights problems, but you know what you get to do, you get to go out and you get to protest like people did over the George Floyd murder. You get to protest the things that you see that are wrong and work within the system to change it. We have an open system. You can say whatever you believe on a podcast and that openness not only in free speech, but in the system that allows you to change it, that is fundamentally different than what is happening in the CCP. So we aren't saying America is perfect. America has lots of problems. Let's call those out and work toward justice, wherever it's found in the world.
Patrick Miller: Absolutely. So bigger picture here for us is should Christians care about this? Should this be something unlike the owner of the Golden State Warriors, just be something that actually does blip our radar. Should we be concerned about the CCP? Not in some sort of nationalistic, make America great, America first kid of way, but in a far more fundamentally Christian. We value human life and we think that because every human is made in God's image, they are worth defending. They are worth caring for. They are worth being concerned over. There is no human, which is below my line of concern.
Keith Simon: What a powerful story it would be in our media if Christians were saying," Hey, those Muslim Uyghurs in the other side of the world, we stand up for their rights. We're praying for them. We want to aid them in any way possible. We want to call our political leaders to speak out against it. I mean, what a powerful story of Christians just cared about their brothers and sisters in the world. Even if they're part of a different faith, they're human beings made in God's image.
Patrick Miller: So here's what I want to do with the rest of the episode. I want to spend a little more time exploring the CCP and how they do violate human rights, because we've really only scratched the tip of the iceberg. And then after that, I want us to look from a Christian perspective, is this something we should be concerned about? Maybe even beyond just the image of God argument? Is there something in the Bibl? Are there passages in the Bible that actually force us to think carefully about what's happening internationally and how can that shape not just our perspective on the CCP, but also our response to the CCP.
Keith Simon: If you're like me and you leave each episode with a lot to think about and wishing you could go just a little bit deeper, you should subscribe to the Truth Over Tribe newsletter. Not only do we explore the topic further, but we also interact with people who disagree with us and tell you about upcoming episodes. Just go to choosetruthovertribe. com and sign up for the newsletter there.
Patrick Miller: So we want to talk for a second about three other areas that we see these human rights considerations coming to bear and ways that we think Christians should really care about. We want to talk about COVID. We want to talk about their social credit score system and their treatment of Christians.
Keith Simon: And these are all things that should concern us because it's playing out in our country too. Their decisions are affecting our lives, our health, how we live our life, our freedoms. So this isn't esoteric thing about people on the other side of the world. This is what's happening on other side of the world that's coming to your door soon. If it has not already there.
Patrick Miller: Well, I mean, COVID would be the prime example of that. I'll be honest, before COVID I had very little concerns about the CCP. I mean, I remember reading little articles here and there where I'd be like," Huh. Well, it's something about the South Pacific Sea and okay. That's someone else's job." But all of a sudden, when there's a virus, which now has killed 5. 6 million people worldwide. It's killed people that I know, it's affected every single life that I know, not just in the form of lockdowns but all different kinds of things, you start getting more concerned. Now my concern with COVID is how do we make sure something like this doesn't happen again? If it was preventable, how do you make sure something like this never, ever, ever occurs again because of the tragedy around it?
Keith Simon: Yeah. It's not so much about blame. As much as it is, what can we learn in the future?
Patrick Miller: Yeah, absolutely. And if you talk to anybody who knows me, they will tell you that I have been incredibly circumspect about the arguments around the CCPs involvement with COVID, by which I mean, I've been very skeptical. It sounds conspiracy theory- ish and I didn't want to buy into it. And yet as more and more reporting has been done, it's become clear and clear that two things happened. One, that the CCP did understand that there was some sort of viral outbreak well, before they let anybody know. And two, they have actively prevented people from being able to research how it happened. Why did this happen? How did it get out?
Keith Simon: Yeah. Those aren't controversial points. Those are just established facts. I believe everyone would agree with those two things. They knew something had happened before they told other people and haven't allowed investigators to try to figure it out. They've hidden things.
Patrick Miller: And a lot of what I'm saying, by the way, is coming from the reporting of a guy named Josh Rogin. He wrote a great book on the subject, by the way, he reports for the Washington Post. This is not some Fox News conservative.
Keith Simon: You said Josh Rogin, not Joe Rogan. Different.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. Joe Rogan were more down the conspiracy theory.
Keith Simon: I don't know. I don't listen to him, but yeah Josh Rogin, Washington Post.
Patrick Miller: So let me state some facts from Josh Rogin. The CCP knew, they knew that the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which by the way, it has the world's largest collection of coronaviruses. So you think about the John Stewart crosstalk.
Keith Simon: Yeah. That's what I was thinking of, because all this was something you couldn't say until John Stewart went on his show and it was like, they have a lab named for this virus. It happened right next door to the lab. That's where the outbreak happened.
Patrick Miller: He compares, he says," I want you to imagine for a second, that there was a deadly flood of chocolate in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
Keith Simon: That's right.
Patrick Miller: And no one wants to say, maybe it was the Hershey chocolate factory. That's exactly what we're dealing with here. It doesn't mean that the CCP's responsible, but gosh, you might have some good questions. What we also know for a fact is that before 2020, there had been numerous lab leaks. Basically, that means viruses getting out unintentionally from the lab. It wasn't well secured and the employees of the lab didn't always do a good job of cleaning themselves. All the things you have to do if you work in a virology lab. The other thing that's become clear is that the lab was using, what's called Gain- of- Function research. Now this is research that is essentially trying to make coronaviruses more and more lethal and transmissible, not because you're trying to do biological warfare, but because you're trying to get ahead of the virus. So when it gets there, will we be ready to handle it at that point?
Keith Simon: You create these viruses on steroids, so you can study them and develop immunizations for them, right?
Patrick Miller: And go back to 2019, COVID- 19 was definitely spreading in late 2019. Again, at this point, the CCP was realizing it was highly infectious and it was also deadly. And so they knew it was a paramount importance to develop plans for containment and for medical treatment. So go to January of 2020, when coronavirus is beginning to get on our radars and everybody's like, this is a joke. This isn't real. It's not going to affect anybody. Chinese scientists at the time actually mapped the genome of COVID- 19, but the CCP banned them from releasing this information. In other words, they had the whole genome there, which would help you create vaccines, would help you deal with it. They banned the researchers from releasing this internationally to the public who would benefit from it. At that point, you keep going forward and the CCP begins to spread all, all kinds of maybe presumed false stories. For example, I remember hearing that coronavirus came from a wet food market. That someone ate a bat and that's essentially what caused it. Well, this is a fact. After this, the CCP went to that market and they destroyed everything. They scrubbed it clean, which made it impossible to either prove disprove what they said. Now, I'm no detective.
Keith Simon: But if somebody is cleaning up the crime scene, then maybe they have something to hide.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. it's like, if my daughter comes and she's like," I didn't eat the cookie." I'm like," I got a video that would show you eating the cookie." Where did the video go? Did you delete the video off our security system at that time? I think you might have ate the cookie. I don't know though. I don't want to be an expert. Now, let's keep going forward. At this exact same time, as it's beginning to spread internationally, there's all these misinformation campaigns that happen. For example, the leader of the Chinese Communist Party calls Donald Trump and says," Hey, this'll go away when it gets warm." Just like the flu. Now again, it's been proven. They knew for a fact, it wasn't going to go away after the flu because they had the research facility crosstalk
Keith Simon: But you're saying Trump because he came out and said that. And so he was just repeating-
Patrick Miller: He was repeating what he heard.
Keith Simon: ...what President Xi had said to him.
Patrick Miller: I think he thought we've got to get enough relationship. I guess I can trust the guy. I'm going to say this, but of course that turned out not to be true. And then again, keep fast forwarding. The CCP uses threats. So they're withholding vitally important medical supplies to keep other governments from looking into the Wuhan lab- leak theory. So anytime a government's coming in or the World Health Organization, which is, by the way, supported by the CCP, they would use threats to stop them from going any further.
Keith Simon: Yeah. The World Health Organization has compromised their integrity because they have not been very enthusiastic about investigating all this.
Patrick Miller: They haven't been impartial.
Keith Simon: But it all comes back to money. It doesn't matter if you're the Golden State Warrior owner, if you're Tim Cook in Apple, or if you're the NBA. It doesn't matter you're the movie industry, or you're the World Health Organization. Everybody wants China's money.
Patrick Miller: They all want the money.
Keith Simon: Show me the money.
Patrick Miller: I want to be crystal clear. I'm not promoting a theory that the CCP developed the coronavirus for the purpose of releasing it into the wild and causing a worldwide pandemic. If you've heard that, I'm sorry. You weren't listening. That's not what I just said. What I am saying is that they have resisted every legitimate effort to look into what actually happened so that we can stop something this terrible from happening again.
Keith Simon: And they failed to warn the world about what was coming. And so some of the death and destruction, economic destruction, of course people's lives to some extent, the blood's on their hands.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So again, Christians, we care about image bearers. We care about people made in God's image. So we should be concerned about a government, which is actively resisting, actively putting up roadblocks to preventing worldwide pandemics. That should be disconcerting to us because we love people. Let's move on to a second thing, the social credit score system.
Keith Simon: This is really interesting stuff, because this is using technology to monitor surveil us and then to change people's behavior, to reward or punish certain behavior. We see a little bit of that in our own country, right? I mean, just to tie it back to what we were just talking about, there was a time that if you said on social media that the COVID virus came from the Wuhan lab, that you could be kicked off social media. And so that was a very mild form of punishment for speaking out in a way that wasn't endorsed by the social media platforms.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So let's talk about what the social credit score system is. So you're familiar with credit scores, right? Keith.
Keith Simon: You mean the reason I can't buy a car or a house or whatever. No. Right. You have a credit score that's kept in independent agencies and they say that you are a good credit risk or you're not. And therefore you're allowed to buy a house or not.
Patrick Miller: And that's partially based on some level of surveillance. Now we've agreed to it.
Keith Simon: They monitor your credit cards when you make payment.
Patrick Miller: The utility bills.
Keith Simon: How many loans you have out, that kind of stuff.
Patrick Miller: And so they're just trying to tell someone who wants to give you a loan, can you trust this person to pay you back?
Keith Simon: Are you a good risk or not?
Patrick Miller: And so we're familiar with the idea of a credit score. Now take that idea and expand it to the idea of a social credit score, where your ability to participate in society is attached to your ability to affirm and go along with the ruling party's ideology. That's what the social credit score system is. It evaluates the loyalty of individuals to the CCP and to its political ideology.
Keith Simon: So in a financial credit score, I get how they keep track. And like you said, we give people permission in a sense to do that. But how does that work on a social level?
Patrick Miller: I'm glad you asked, Keith. Now, how do they do it? They monitor people's lives constantly. So first of all, they use cameras. So they're watching you. They use facial recognition technology developed by Apple, by the way, to know who's walking on this street at this particular time. They use online surveillance. And so they're looking through everything that you post online, every email that you send, every text message that you send, they're tracking your associations. Because they know where you're going, they know who are you associating with? Is that person loyal? Well, if they're not loyal, maybe you're not loyal too. They track your travel. They know where you're going, when you're going, they track your speech. And this is where things get really crazy and big brother- ish, at least in my opinion is that they use artificial intelligence to monitor all this. I mean, as you can imagine, you've got 1.5 billion people. There aren't enough people to track all of those people. And so what they do is they create artificial intelligence, which scans through where you're walking, where you're going, what you're doing, who you're associating with, what you're publishing online, what you're saying. And it uses its algorithm to determine and give you essentially a loyalty score. That is your social credit score.
Keith Simon: And that's what I was referring to earlier when I said that in 2013, people in Xinjiang were required to provide DNA samples. Everybody between 12 and 65 were required not only to provide DNA samples, but blood types, fingerprints, voice prints. This is all out of the New Yorker. And so what they're doing is using the social credit score again, with everybody in the whole country, but they've upped the Annie. It's like social credit on steroids with the Uyghurs.
Patrick Miller: DNA track. I mean, that just is creepy.
Keith Simon: And then the GPS units on the cars, the people in Uyghurs province, the Uyghurs. So it does get it creepy.
Patrick Miller: It also goes inside of the corporate world in China. Companies are supposed to report on employee behavior and beliefs. So you think you're just having a water cooler conversation with your friend about some problem you've got with the CCP, your employer is legally responsible to report that to the CCP. Now, you might be wondering, how do I get a lower social credit scores? Some of them are funny. I mean, it's not funny because the system is so draconian and evil.
Keith Simon: He used it for bad purposes.
Patrick Miller: It's like you jaywalked walked.
Keith Simon: Yeah. There goes your social credit score. You played your music a little too loud on the train. There goes your social credit score, but more commonly it's ideological descent. It's disagreeing with the CCP. That is how you lower your social credit score, which by the way, Christians would include worshiping in a non- state sanctioned underground church. So then this social credit score is used to determine whether you are trustworthy, untrustworthy, whether you're someone that they should give a job to or house to or not. If you can't get healthcare because of a social credit score, then you're going to pay a lot of attention to whether you are critical of the party or not. I mean, it gets down to the point where, whether you're not, you could rent a bike is determined by having a high enough social credit score.
Patrick Miller: It is wild stuff. I mean, can you imagine being told, no, you can't get a home loan because you disagree with the Republican Party?
Keith Simon: Yeah. That's weird.
Patrick Miller: Or the democratic Party. Can you imagine not being able to get healthcare, like you said, or not being able to get inside of a college or a school or not being able to get a job because you don't agree with this or that party. And you didn't, by the way, tell your employer that it's because they've been tracking every single thing that you do and say that they already know. And they can't give you the job by the way, because if they do that, their social credit score is going to go down. They're going to be viewed as being disloyal.
Keith Simon: Yeah. So you've got a report on your friend or someone's going to report on you and it becomes this society where everyone is in a circular firing squad. They're all firing at each other to protect themselves and trust falls apart. I think Christians will for sure be interested in the fact that one of the things you can't do in China is worship in a church that is not state sanctioned, at least not without cause to your social credit score and all the implications from that. So they have state sponsored church. Now these are not orthodox churches, biblical churches, Jesus loving Bible, believing churches that you and I want to go to and hopefully are a part of. These are churches that have twisted the gospel, watered it all down and if you're caught at a non- state sanctioned church, then you could have your property taken from you. You could be kicked out of your house. You could lose your job. That's why it's so remarkable that the Chinese church has been growing so much over the last several decades is it's doing so in the face of intense opposition.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. I just want to say this here, Keith and I both know Chinese nationals, people who are living in the United States, who are from China. There are stories that I wish I could sit here and share on a podcast that people have told me and we simply can't. We wouldn't do it because we can't put people's lives and welfare and other things at risk. But one story we can share is that we support an organization and they said, we could share this, that gives Bible resources to these non- state sanctioned churches. These are just resources to help people understand their Bible. It's not political.
Keith Simon: They're not political at all.
Patrick Miller: It's just understanding your Bible. That's what we're talking about. When they give them the resources, they have to give it to these churches on thumb drives. Because if the CCP shows up at a worship service or in your house, what you have to do is take that thumb drive and drop it into a glass of water, which destroys the thumb drive and therefore destroys all the evidence that you had anything Bible related inside of your house, inside of your group of people that you're with at the time.
Keith Simon: You reminded me of a couple of guys who came into my office. They were both Chinese and one was getting ready to leave, to go back to China because he had finished his studies here. He'd become a Christian here. He'd grown in his faith as part of our church community. And before he left, he wanted to come and say goodbye. Now this is the first time I'd ever met him and I ended up getting a picture with him before he left. But he said," When I go back, it's going to be incredibly challenging. I'm not sure how to navigate my faith. How public can I be?" But he was obviously stressed and worried and asked us to pray for him. But he was going back into the teeth of the lion. You remember the Colosseum and people be thrown to the lions? Well, I'm not aware of where that's happening today. Maybe it is in some places. I don't think that's what's happening in China. Instead, the persecution has taken a different form and it's attacking your ability to provide for yourself, for your family. It's just as horrible, I think. It's just taken a different form in today's world.
Patrick Miller: I mean, in some ways, it's almost worse. If someone says," Hey, you have to die for your faith right now." Deny Jesus or die. I die. That's easy. It's not easy. I'm not trying to belittle it, but I die. If someone says," Hey, renounce your faith in Jesus, or spend the rest of your life as a social outcast. You can't get a job-
Keith Simon: Or homeless.
Patrick Miller: ...you can't get healthcare. And by the way, all of your family members, whether or not they agree with you, they're going to suffer all the same consequences.
Keith Simon: You can't get your kid medicine they need, you can't get them an operation they need.
Patrick Miller: That is a totally different ballgame. It would be far harder for me to resist that than it would be just for me to die.
Keith Simon: Your kid can't get into school. They've studied for and qualified for because you go to church.
Patrick Miller: It's awful.
Keith Simon: So the Golden State Warriors owner said that this didn't reach his threshold of things he cares about. Should it reach our threshold? Should it be over the line for us? Should we, as Christians care about this? I mean, we're not Chinese. We don't live there. We don't live near that country. We have our own pressing problems in our own country, our own injustices that we need to be working on and our own busy lives. So what should we think about this and what should we do about it? Anything?
Patrick Miller: I think that's a great question. I want to start with the model of the prophets. So if you go back to the book of Isaiah, and by the way, I could pick a lot of different prophets to make this point. But in the book of Isaiah chapters 13 to 23, the entirety of that section is the prophet going from one nation to another nation, to another nation, to another nation, to another nation, explaining how they have rebelled against God's plan for the world to be filled with love, justice and mercy. In fact, a lot of people just skip over these chapters because it's like international show and tell. I mean, you've got nations like the Neo- Babylonian Empire, Syria, Persia, Egypt, Edom, Aram, Phoenicia, Lydia, the Grisham City States. They're all inside of this. Now, why I find that really interesting is Isaiah wasn't a prophet to the Greeks. He wasn't a prophet to Egypt. He wasn't a prophet to Persia. He was a prophet to Judah.
Keith Simon: He could have just said, I'm going to focus on Israel's sins, right? I'm going to focus on our sins because there are plenty of sins that Israel had-
Patrick Miller: And he did.
Keith Simon: ...and he did talk about them. It's not as if he exempted them, but he thought that truth mattered. The whole world, because Jesus is king in the world.
Patrick Miller: That's exactly right. If God's concerns are as small as America, then great. Let's just worry about America. But if Yahweh, if Jesus really is king over everything, then His concerns are more expansive than a single nation.
Keith Simon: So if we just care about our country, we've missed the heart of God. And we've placed our American citizenship above our kingdom citizenship. Because as citizens of heaven, we need to care about all the same things that God does and God wants to see justice all over the world. And so that might mean speaking out. So remember what Dr. King said, in the end, we'll remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. And if Christians are silent about injustice around the world, that will be remembered.
Patrick Miller: It absolutely will be remembered. And it puts us out of step with the Bible, with the great preachers and speaker of the Bible. I mean, this is just a short list of the prophets who deal with international issues. International injustices, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Jonah, Habakkuk, Obadiah, Nahum exclusively is concerned with the injustices of nations outside of Israel. And we could add to that the author of Revelation because when we a book of Revelation and this is a bit uncomfortable for Americans, I've discovered it gives us a certain orientation towards the nation state. It describes the nation state as this monstrosity, as this beast, which is gloated on the blood of people, which is in an illicit sexual relationship with the prostitute of capital and economics. It's gross. It's over the top imagery to say your orientation as a follower of Jesus towards the state, towards not the kingdom of God, is that times going to be like that. You'll have to see its beastliness, you'll have to see the prostitute that just wants more money. You'll have to be able to see it so you can speak truth and resist.
Keith Simon: Doesn't this find its root in Daniel 7, where the son of man is lifted up and exalted over the warring nations that set themselves against him, against God's people, against each other, against all human beings. And what we see in Daniel 7 is that the son of man, which of course is Jesus's favorite name for himself, triumphs over all those beasts. And we see that finally fully played out in the book of Revelation, where he is sitting on His throne, reigning over the world, but not before he defeats all the nation states who are waring against people. And so that doesn't mean that everybody in government is part of Satan's plan or something thing. But what it does mean is that national powers get twisted and they begin to use their power against the people that they are supposed to protect and provide for.
Patrick Miller: Absolutely. In fact, I think we can go back before Daniel to the book of Exodus. And when we get at the story of the Exodus, you have a story of God resisting massive, massive injustice, and God resisting a leader who is doing it. Pharaoh at the time, he had made himself into an idol. He thought," I'm a God. So I can do whatever I want to." And he was defacing God's creation by murdering the firstborn sons of all the Israeli children. So, I mean, here is a literal genocide that's happening in the book of Exodus. And what Pharaoh didn't understand is that there are limits to power. Xi Jinping does not seem to understand. There are moral limits to his power. He's not in control. He's making himself into an idol. God is the one who's in control. And if you resist, eventually God does respond.
Keith Simon: Well, I said, Daniel, and then you went back to Exodus. I'm going to one up you. I'm going to go back to Genesis and see if you can do better than that because that's where God creates all human beings in His image and that predates government. That's who every single person is, and therefore we should be concerned about the dignity, respect, value, and rights of people. That's what it means to be a Christian. Human rights, which our world cares a lot about. They are rooted in the Bible. In Genesis 1," And every human being made in God's image." If you take that foundation away, then there really is no basis for human rights, but because it's there and because we call that God's word, that means that you and I, as Jesus followers are required to care about people that we don't know.
Patrick Miller: That's exactly right. Genesis 1 was a revolutionary statement. Throughout most of human history, the rulers of the world have divided up the world into people who are worth more and people who are worth less, people who deserve my care and love and concern. It might be the one wealthy, it might be the powerful, it might be the people who have the same ethnicity as me. It changes over time, but these are the ones we should be concerned about. And those people over there, they don't deserve God's concern, which sounds eerily like the owner of the Golden State Warriors, who tries to put economic values on people and says these Uyghurs, they are below the level of my concern.
Keith Simon: Well, in the Ancient Near East, the person who was created in the image of God, the person who was God was the ruler, right? It was Pharaoh. It was whoever the ruler is of that particular day in that particular nation. And what's so revolutionary about Genesis one is it says," No, every human being is created in the image of God.
Patrick Miller: Bottom line, Jesus loves Uyghurs. Jesus loves the citizens of China who are being oppressed by the CCP.
Keith Simon: There'll be Uyghurs in heaven. People from every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Patrick Miller: I think that's one of the things we have to wrestle with on a personal level. Look, do ordinary individuals living in the United States, is there much we can do to change a situation out there? Probably but what do I have? Well, all I have is a voice. We've got a podcast. So we're talking about it, right? I don't know what you have, but I think that Jesus is going to hold us all accountable for that. I think that when you get to heaven and you're being judged, if you look to the left of you and you see a Uyghur who was sterilized by the CCP and you have to look that person in the face and they say," What did you do about this? Oh, you got rich? Good. Okay. That makes sense."
Keith Simon: Yeah. Sometimes when I realize that I can't do much, it demotivates me to do anything. I think that's a really big mistake, but one that I'm prone to. I can't do anything about that. Maybe president Biden can, or maybe some other world leader can, but I can't do anything, but maybe there are some small things that we can do. Maybe you could pray. Every Christian could pray that God would bring His kingdom to this world and His kingdom of justice and pray for the protection of Uyghurs and the end to all human rights violations around the world, including our own country. So that's one thing you can do. Another thing you might choose to do now, people are going to have different approaches to this. So I'm not saying it's for everybody, but you might choose to invest only in companies like your pension or your 401( k) or whatever in companies that aren't doing business in China. Or you might change your buying habits depending on who is doing what in China. Now, those are hard. I'm not sure those are a great answer because the world economy is pretty flat. It's hard to figure out who benefits from China and who doesn't. Maybe it affects your vote and you're going to take that into account when you walk into the voting booth. The politicians' stance toward China.
Patrick Miller: You could write a letter to your representative, to your Senator to say," Hey, I want you to support what Joe Biden's doing right now to stand up to these human rights violations."
Keith Simon: But even our government leaders, their hands are tied. Because nobody that I know of is calling for a world war about this issue. That would be foolish. That would just cause more damage and more destruction. So I get the cynicism, I get the helplessness, I get the sense of, well, what are we going to do? So let's don't do anything, but don't fall into that trap.
Patrick Miller: Yeah. So if I could bring this back to a Truth Over Tribe message, which I do think is something Jesus wants us to value. It is sad to me to see how the China debate has become so partisan that your views on the CCP, your views on what's happening with Uyghurs is somehow attached to your political allegiances. My hope, again, is that I'd see conservatives who are affirming on the positive end. Hey, what Biden's doing right now, that's a good thing. I hope on the flip side, that progressives who have been very resistant to speaking out about these issues would say," You know what? This actually fits within our values set and I do need to speak out against this." So here's the bottom line: Choose truth over lies, choose truth over tribe. Choose the truth that there is no life, which is below your level of concern and be willing at the very least to not buy into the lies that these big corporations and businesses are shouting for their own personal interests. Be willing to resist simply for the sake of saying, "I'm not going to let my Uyghur brother and sister, I'm not going to let my Chinese brother and sister suffer under the oppression and the lies of the CCP. I will not be a part of it. I won't buy in."
Keith Simon: Thanks for listening. If you found this podcast helpful, make sure to subscribe and leave the review.
Patrick Miller: And make sure it's at least five stars.
Keith Simon: Stop. No. Just be honest. Reviews help other people find us.
Patrick Miller: Okay. At the very least, you can share today's episode, maybe put it on your social, your favorite text chain.
Keith Simon: And if you didn't like this episode, awesome. Tell us why you disagree on Twitter @ truthovertribe_. We might even share your thoughts in an upcoming newsletter.
Hot take: The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are the moral equivalent of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. How? Find out in today's episode as we walk you through the history and current events surrounding the Chinese Communist Party and its alarming human rights violations. How should Christians respond to this year's Olympic games in light of the CCP? Plus, you'll also hear Keith and Patrick shed light on the hypocrisy of American businesses and individuals who refuse to take a stand against China when money is involved. Listen now!
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