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Episode 123 | November 8, 2023

Gen Z’s Fight Against Theological Liberalism with YouTuber Redeemed Zoomer

Is spiritual renewal happening within Gen Z?

The Asbury Revival. Rapidly growing college ministries. Recent happenings have many Christians convinced that spiritual renewal is occurring within Gen Z. Today, Patrick learns more about what’s going on in this generation when he sits down with “Redeemed Zoomer,” a YouTuber and leader of a group of Gen Zers across the country who are seeking to reclaim mainline denominations from liberal theology. Recently, this group, named “The Protestant Reconquista,”wrote their own “95 Theses,” which...

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Patrick Miller  01:01

If you've been following the podcast, you'll know that both Keith and I share an interest in Gen Z. Actually, that's probably not strong enough. I am increasingly convinced that there is some sort of spiritual renewal happening inside of Gen Z right now and that the church is responsible to join in that mission. I've written a number of articles about Gen Z for the gospel coalition. We've done several interviews with experts about Gen Z, and we spent a whole episode talking about the Asbury revival, which was led by Gen Z. But I have to be honest, I am most excited about today's episode with a Gen Z YouTuber named redeemed Zoomer. He's leading an extraordinary group of Gen Z ers across the country who are seeking to retake mainline denominations from liberal theology. And when I say liberal theology, I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about pastors who deny the authority of the Bible, deny Jesus's divinity deny that Jesus is the only way to God did I his virgin birth and the resurrection, they deny what normal Christians would call orthodoxy. And as you can imagine, they end up affirming virtually everything that's become commonplace amongst progressives redeem Zoomer isn't just talk. So before we hop in, I'm going to let you listen to the audio from a recent YouTube video he released detailing how he and his friends pulled off what I think some people are going to see as an extraordinary stunt. But if you pay attention, this is actually a profound act of grassroots Gen Z, lead ecclesial reform, what's awesome.

Redeemed Zoomer  02:47

The most Protestant thing to do is to protest and reform your church when it's not following the bible. And on this very day, Reformation Day, over 1000 Protestants of many different denominations have united to speak out against the problems facing all of our churches. 506 years ago today, Martin Luther saw enormous problems with the church. So he wrote 95 theses and protests and he nailed them to the door of his church. While he never intended to split off. This resulted in the birth of the Protestant churches, which many great nations were built upon. But unfortunately, new problems have recently crept into the Protestant churches as well. The mainstream historic Protestant churches, also known as mainline denominations have all been hijacked by theological liberalism, where they abandoned the essentials of the Christian faith, replacing them with secular progressive ideologies. The Cross has been replaced with political symbols, theology and doctrine have been replaced with activism, preaching about a holy God has been replaced with preaching about wellness and self love. But many of us within these denominations have been horrified by this trend. So following our Protestant heritage, over 1000 of us mainline Protestant members, elders and pastors have each written our own 95 theses to our respective denominations, exposing the flaws of liberalism and arguing for the true Christian faith. Today, we sent these 95 theses to every mainline Protestant church in America that we could find. You heard me every single 110s of 1000s of them, we sent emails, letters, and were permitted. We posted them on church doors, we refuse to stay silent because we love our churches and refuse to see them die due to abandoning the beliefs they were founded upon. And they are dying for this reason, because they don't give people anything to believe in other than what the outside world already tells them. Many have decided to just give up on these denominations altogether and start from scratch. But we aren't going to let what was built up by generations of faithful Christians for God's glory fall into the hands of those who oppose God's kingdom. If we can't stop secularism from taking over our own churches, then we can't expect to stop it at all. Christians have retreated from the culture for far too long. Our generations job is to stop running away and begin to take it back. Our movement all started with a small online group chat of Generation Z Christians who are in these denominations that are falling to theological liberalism. However, over the course of 2023, this community grew rapidly from a small online group chat to a large Discord server with over 1000 members, and many 1000 more supporters. Pastors in each mainline denomination heard about this. While enormous sections of these denominations are drifting from the faith. There is a minority of churches and pastors and each of these denominations that have remained faithful and want to restore them. Some of these pastors joined our community, and then the members from each mainline denomination started organizations dedicated to restoring their respective denominations. For example, the Episcopalians started the Episcopal fellowship for renewal and got many conservative Episcopal priests and bishops on board with their movement. The Lutherans started the Society of Orthodox Lutheran advocates, or sola and started working with ELCA pastors who are taking over formerly liberal churches. The Presbyterians started Presbyterians for the kingdom and are actively working with seminaries to help train a new generation of biblically based PCUSA pastors. The United Methodists started young Methodists for tradition, those in the RCA started the reformed revivalist of America, the American Baptists started American Baptists for Christ, and those in the United Church of Christ started Puritans of the UCC. Together, we are all united as the Protestant Reconquista. So how do we expect to make change in denominations that have gone so far astray? Well, the reality is that theologically liberal churches always die out, which is why these mainline denominations are rapidly shrinking. The only churches within mainline denominations that are not dying out are the theologically conservative ones, the churches that still hold to the teachings of Scripture, so we aren't sending people to march into heretical, progressive churches, we're letting those ones die out naturally, we just need to strengthen the conservative minority, knowing that they're soon going to be a majority. And that's exactly what we are doing. You can help to, on our website, we've made a map of every non liberal mainline church we could find linked in the description of this video, by the way, so you can find a solid mainline church near you to start attending. Also, many of these more moderate mainline churches are mostly old people. So that means they're desperate for membership. And that's why they hand out leadership positions like free candy, even just by yourself, you can have a big impact in one of these churches. If you start attending. This movement has grown rapidly in less than a year so far. But in order to make lasting change and revive our beloved churches, we need people to know what we're doing. We need to awaken the world to this movement that is rising. That's why today, each of the organizations we founded sent 95 theses to their respective denominations calling for a return to biblical faithfulness. We pray that these will ignite a reformation just like Martin Luther is 95 theses did, but in order for that to happen, we need you to spread the word about this. Tell your pastor what's been happening. post about it on social media, follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. If you're already in one of these denominations, you're invited to join our Discord community to get connected with other faithful Christians. This is the spiritual battle of our time. Christianity keeps declining because the historic churches have been taken over. You cannot revive a culture without reviving the churches It was founded upon. Many faithful Christians have been exiled from their own churches. But now it's time to take them back. This is the Recon keister. We are young and not in positions of power yet, but the Lord is on our side if we do what his word commands, we have allies all over the country, we have more and more people waking up to take action every day. Remember, this is not an act of aggression. This is an act of love by bringing the Gospel back to these churches, and we are not fighting people. Here we are fighting the spiritual forces of evil. So join the Recon keister and fight for God's kingdom.

Patrick Miller  09:36

Redeemed Zoomer, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today.

Redeemed Zoomer  09:40

Thank you for having me.

Patrick Miller  09:41

It's an honor to be here. Anybody's listen to the podcast might already be taken aback at this point. Because normally when we're interviewing people, we're using real names not pseudonyms, but you've requested that I use redeem Zoomer and I think for some rather important reason so maybe can we just start there? Why do you go by redeem Zoomer? Why at this Point Have you chosen not to reveal your identity publicly?

Redeemed Zoomer  10:03

Yeah, so I'm going to reveal my public identity pretty soon. But for now, we're in the process of a movement that's trying to counteract a lot of abuses of leadership and our denominations. And a lot of people in these denominations. While there's so many great faithful Christians, faithful pastors, in mainline Protestant denominations, a lot of the higher ups will leverage their power to kick out people and pastors who they disagree with. So it's more about protecting the identities of people I'm associated with, rather than myself, because there's a lot of people, including people who are trying to apply to seminary and stuff more and more precarious positions than I am. So for this movement to succeed, some identities need to be concealed. So once they're in a safe place, once everyone I'm connected to is in a safe place, then I can be a lot more open to the public. For right now, if we're going to try and protest Trump leadership, we need to give the leadership as little information as possible about who we are and who were associated with. Yeah,

Patrick Miller  10:57

so zoom, where I want to start with your story, and specifically, how you first became aware of theological liberalism in your own mainline denomination, which is the Presbyterian Church USA, or as we'll probably call it, from this point forward, the PC USA, and it all started at a confirmation retreat. Can you tell us what happened there?

Redeemed Zoomer  11:16

Yeah. So as long as I've been Christian, once I converted to Christianity as a teenager, I've been in the PCUSA. It's the only denomination I've ever been a part of really. And my particular church in the PCUSA was one of the more moderate types. There's a lot of stories about crazy, liberal, progressive things going on my church wasn't necessarily one of those churches. But then when I was like 16, I went on a confirmation retreat that was run by the denomination by the denomination, not by my individual church. And that's when I saw the most insane things in the PCUSA. There were pastors there who called Tim Keller a fundamentalist. There were pastors there who denied the divinity of Christ. There was this one pastor, she called unborn children, parasites, and another one yelled at me for valuing unborn life. So for awhile, I was like, Man, I want to get out of this denomination if this is what they believe. But luckily, in my home, PCUSA church, I had a really solid mentor who was very rooted in reformed teaching. And he explained to me, you may want to run away, but you cannot run away. Because the reason things have gotten this bad is because for decades and decades, these problems have been festering, and people have walked away rather than addressing them, and explain to me why the historical significance of the denomination cannot be understated. And at first, I didn't really believe him. But over the years, I began to see the impacts that the decline of the mainline churches has had. And I think the decline of such culturally important churches can be one of the factors in the decline of Christianity overall in America. And I see whenever Gen Z people convert to Christianity, they often find an attachment to tradition of traditional churches. And that's why we're seeing so many people become Catholic and Orthodox. And people have this idea that if you want a traditional historically rooted church, you need to become Catholic or orthodox Protestantism doesn't have that. But I think that the best way to reach Gen Z as reformed Christians is to revive these historic reformed institutions, not to the exclusion of other churches, but just to sort of recreate the sort of cultural unity that the mainline Protestant churches used to have for Christianity. So tell us a bit

Patrick Miller  13:22

about how you became a Christian and what led you into the PCUSA. Right. So

Redeemed Zoomer  13:26

when I became a Christian, it was due to the influence of mainline Protestant churches sort of I became Christian at a music camp, but its music camp in the Midwest, but it was run by a Christian music professor at a top music University. And everything about that camp reflected the kingdom of God. It wasn't like an in your face preaching bible camp, and no one came up to me and said, Have you accepted Jesus into your heart or something? No, no one tried to convince me to become Christian. But I saw the goodness, truth and beauty of Christianity at that camp. In terms of goodness, it was very service oriented. There's a lot of community service, we would always partner with local churches almost always mainline Protestant churches, to do service to the local communities, whether playing for prisons, or cleaning up low income neighborhoods, or, you know, playing for underprivileged kids at summer camps. There was truth because the Christian faculty would always give us life lessons not just about faith, but how faith interacts with music, and how both of them interact with every other area of life. And then there was beauty. We sang hymns in a beautiful stained glass chapel every day. And I really saw the beauty of Christianity that I never really respected before. So I saw the goodness, truth and beauty of Christianity there. And when I started going to church back home, I thought I should just choose something that was similar to what I saw at that summer camp. So I chose a PCUSA church because that was what my camp director was, didn't really put that much thought into it. And I got attached to my Christian tradition. And it wasn't until like a year and a half later that I saw all the problems that have infected that nomination. shouldn't but eventually I realized I can't jump ship.

Patrick Miller  15:02

Yeah, because I can imagine you go one of two ways, like you said, you could jump ship and say, Hey, I'm gonna go to a more conservative denomination that holds to orthodox beliefs. Or you could go the opposite direction and say, hmm, I thought I knew what Christianity was all about. But gosh, these people have a different way of thinking, and maybe they're right, maybe I'm wrong. So why don't you go down that other route? Why not just jump in with the pastors who are denying the divinity of Jesus in the resurrection?

Redeemed Zoomer  15:27

Well, it's interesting, you ask that because I actually strongly considered it because back then if my pastors were saying something, I thought, you know, maybe I should believe them. They're my pastors. And especially because the background I was coming from before I was Christian, I was a hardcore progressive leftist I held every progressive value you can think of. And even after I became Christian, I still tried to retain a lot of my left wing values, like I was completely affirming of same sex relationships for like, two years after being Christian. And I was still thinking through that issue when I saw these problems. So a liberal pastor recommended to me like progressive, which basically outlines the tenets of progressive Christianity and I interacted with a lot of progressive pastors. And I really, I tried to make myself believe it because there was something appealing to me about Christianity that could be completely compatible with the values of the culture, and then I would no longer have to be ashamed to be a Christian in this culture. But what I realized is, the more progressive, the more LGBT affirming a form of Christianity was, the less theologically compelling it was, the less seriously they took Christ Himself, the less seriously they took eternal life, in the most progressive parts of it, like it is a spectrum. It's not like a binary of biblical versus liberal, it's really a spectrum. But at the most radical ends of the spectrum, like what I saw at that confirmation retreat, there was really nothing different about Christianity than what the world was already saying. They did not believe there was really anything supernatural, anything objectively true about the faith. Christianity was nothing but a way that we can think of social justice by following an example of a fake Jesus that they made up a made up Jesus who only cares about earthly social justice, and not about the Heavenly Kingdom of God. So I realized that if I want something actually spiritually meaningful, I can't go along with this movement that barely believes in God at all, and in many cases, doesn't believe in God at all. A while

Patrick Miller  17:20

back, we had Ryan Berge on the show, and he's a bi vocational pastor in the mainline Baptist denomination, and ABC. Yep. And we got into a bit of an argument, because he was saying that if churches want to continue to reach Gen Z, they're going to have to change their perspective on LGBTQ issues. If they don't, then they will lose them. And I'm hearing you say the opposite. But you could just be a strange case. Maybe you're just a weird dude who has one perspective, but how would you respond to his critique? Well,

Redeemed Zoomer  17:47

I'm not a strange case, look at the statistics that churches that embrace liberal theology are the ones that are dying out. And this is true, even within mainline denominations, like there's a lot of liberalism in mainline denominations. But as I indicated, it doesn't apply to every single church. The main lines are bleeding members, because the only people that go to most mainline churches are old people who are relics of a time when everyone went to church as a social obligation. But the only, you know, mainline churches that have young people in them really are the ones that stick to conservative theology and conservative in this context, doesn't mean politically conservative just means you believe in God, and you believe that Jesus and the gospel is real and all that. And I can't really say the same about a lot of theologically liberal churches. So statistics show that the only religious communities that are not rapidly declining in terms of membership, or the ones that stick to tradition, there's a reason there's a mass conversion of Gen Z, cultural Christians to like Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Gen. Z overall, is extremely secular. It's the most secular generation in human history. But there's also been a reaction against it, there has been like a reaction against secularism, and sometimes it doesn't take on the most savory varieties. There are some, you know, toxic Trad movements, but generally, it's an across the board reality that Gen Z is craving tradition, they generally are moving away from these contemporary non denominational churches in into more historically rooted churches. So I would say, don't look at me, I could be an anomaly, but look at the statistics that churches that are theologically liberal are dying out the fastest. That's the reality. So it is absolutely not true that the church needs to agree with the culture on LGBT to gay members, because there are a lot of Gen Z people who want the church to affirm LGBTQ, but those aren't the same people who would actually make the effort to go to church so you're not really gaining anything.

Patrick Miller  19:37

So after that confirmation retreat, it sounds like a few years pass and did you start the discord group or the YouTube channel first?

Redeemed Zoomer  19:43

I started the YouTube channel first. I didn't really start it until like a year ago. For a while I had intentions to create an online presence but nothing really happened until 2022. It started with redeem Zoomer Instagram, and then redeem Zoomer YouTube and After a while, like I thought, you know, my idea about reviving the mainline churches, like I need to make this public. So in the beginning of 2023, January 2023, I announced the Recon Keystone movement on YouTube. It was just an idea at that time. And then in like the spring of 2023, it was like a small group chat of people on Instagram, but it kept growing larger and larger. And then in summer of 2023, that's when the discord started. We started the official reconquest of discord, which I advertised through my YouTube channel. And I was the one who started the discord. But now I am not like the leader of this movement. There's a lot of leaders, including a lot of pastors who are involved. I'm simply the one who set up the discord for them to communicate on its own.

Patrick Miller  20:45

For people who haven't watched your YouTube channel. Most of it is you talking about denominations or theology a little bit of apologetics while you literally build churches in Minecraft, which I love because it's so meta, it's I just have to ask the question, where did you get the idea to not just play games while talking about theology, but to you know, visually build the church while talking about rebuilding the church, I wanted

Redeemed Zoomer  21:08

to combine Minecraft and faith in some way for a long time. But the idea for that specific model that comes from my girlfriend, she's absolutely brilliant. He's also a very based Presbyterian. And she's like the puppet master behind a lot of my ideas. She actually thinks of a lot of it. So I want to give her credit for this. She's absolutely brilliant. She's amazing. And she's also very involved in both the PCA and the PCUSA. Now, she's a member of the PCA, but she's also involved in the work of reaching out to the PCUSA. So yeah, Kingdom crafts. Not all my videos have Minecraft, but the ones that do, that was her idea.

Patrick Miller  21:45

I've watched several of them. And I think as a concept, it's again, it's meta, it's fascinating. And you're obviously very sharp. And you've thought deeply a lot about these topics. And so it's been fun to listen to. So how did the idea develop me you start the YouTube channel, you start the discord. And you kind of present this idea of the Reconquista movement operation, how do you go from there to sending out your 95 theses to every mainline church in the United States?

Redeemed Zoomer  22:09

So the reason I got the idea to start a real movement is math. There are so many more evangelical Christians who are involved in the church than mainline Protestants. After a while, we realize that if every single evangelical Christian started getting involved in their local mainline Church, the mainline churches would have a massive revival in a year, just because the numbers like back when the Liberals took over the mainline churches from the Orthodox Christians, they were much more strong and robust. Now Christians have a much easier battle to retake them than the secular liberals did. So it's like, I don't know if we can't do what they did. Given that our job is much easier than basically saying that liberals are stronger than the Christians. And of course, by liberal in this case, I mean, theological liberal people don't really hold to the essentials of the Christian faith. But once I did that math, I realized that if everyone knew about this movement, if the entire world knew if the entire Christian landscape in America knew that this was happening, this could actually be done. And I realized this is no longer just a pipe dream. If we got enough people involved, we could actually do this. So sending out 95 theses to every single mainline church, that was a way of Awakening people to the reality of this movement. There's a lot of quiet conservatives in the mainline denomination like older people who have given up all hope for the mainline to be revived, it was sent out to them partially that they were sort of the target audience to give them hope. And it did, we received countless messages of people being like, I am so glad there are young people in the church who care about good theology, who care about bringing Christ back to the church. So on the one hand, there was that, but also, you know, it's a big deal if enough young people put in the effort to not only email but physically post 95 Theses on the door of every church across the country. So I wanted to make people in the evangelical world aware of what's going on as well. So they can get involved too. And they can get involved. What do you

Patrick Miller  24:12

want evangelicals to because obviously, in my mind, you send 95 theses off, and the first thing that comes to my mind is, oh, perhaps you're trying to change the minds of the leaders in those churches or make them aware, hey, you've got all these young people, and this is what they want, but I'm hearing you say is, now this was a bit of a publicity thing. Look at this big thing that we did. And we're doing this to get people to become aware of the problem and maybe get some evangelicals to say, hey, I want to be a part of solving this by returning to the main line. Is that the goal? Sort

Redeemed Zoomer  24:38

of Yeah, we don't have much hope in the ability to change the minds of the higher up leaders in the denomination. We do have a lot of hope and the ability of Christians to start a revival. So this is meant to be like a grassroots bottom up revival. And like when Martin Luther posted his theses, was he trying to change the Pope's mind? Or was he trying to make people aware of the problems he did? Make? well aware of the problems. A lot of people have no idea what's going on in these mainline churches. So yes, we do want evangelicals to get involved, whether it's by actually joining mainline churches, there are some issues with that, that we've addressed and might get into that later. But even if they don't join mainline churches, my girlfriend had another brilliant idea, something evangelicals can do called a church swap, where one Sunday every month a few people at an evangelical church would go to a mainline church instead, and would sort of use that as a mission field, because mainline churches really are the most neglected mission field. And then ideally, some people from that mainline church could, you know, swap churches and worship at the evangelical church, they might hear a more pure gospel message, then they could bring that message back to their mainline church, and then the effect will be twofold, because then they could also have a positive impact. So that's a way that evangelicals can get involved in mainline churches without actually joining them. But we do want people to join the more conservative, moderate mainline churches to revive those ones.

Patrick Miller  25:56

Yeah, that's what they're going to say, Man, I'm sure you've had pushback and people saying, Hey, how can you be encouraging people to join churches that have chucked orthodoxy? And sounds like your answer is I made a map, you can go to one of these churches, and let's fill them up with people that are still theologically Orthodox, they're still theologically conservative. Is that your response?

Redeemed Zoomer  26:13

Yeah, my response is, of course, we shouldn't send people to places that are devoid of the gospel. That's why we have a map of mainline churches that still hold to the gospel. We have a map of moderate to conservative mainline churches. Again, it's simple mathematics, the theologically liberal churches in the denomination are dying out rapidly, the conservative and moderate ones are not. So we're basically trying to send people to give new strength to these moderate and conservative ones, maybe helped push them in even more Biblically centered direction. And then all we have to do is just wait like 1020 years, and pretty soon they're going to be the only ones left. So it's a very passive strategy, honestly, for recapturing these nominations. But the math checks out. Obviously,

Patrick Miller  26:55

in more congregational traditions, you can imagine a world where you have a grassroots movement that can create bottom up change rather rapidly. But when you're talking about traditions that are either more hierarchical, higher church, those changes can be harder to bring to bear, because you have a established leadership that is presumably going to be there for quite some time. So how do you think about changing, you know, Anglican churches or changing Presbyterian churches, where it's not just changing a local church, you have to change the presbytery, and then you have to change the whole denomination after that.

Redeemed Zoomer  27:26

So that's what I thought in the beginning, at first, I thought like the Episcopal Church, which is the most hierarchical would be the hardest to retake. But our Reconquista community is divided up into subgroups for retaking each denomination. And so far, the most successful subgroup by far has been the Episcopalians. There was a group that was birthed out of the Reconquista movement called the Episcopal fellowship for renewal, the EFR independent from us still supported by us. And what they were able to do is they were able to get a lot of Episcopal priests and even a couple of Episcopal bishops on their side. So yes, the Episcopal Church is very hierarchical, but they were able to get people in the hierarchy on their side. And now they're actually working with certain bishops to do online evangelism for like the youth and stuff. And that's going to really accelerate the process of these, you know, conservative churches surviving and the liberal ones naturally declining. Do

Patrick Miller  28:21

people in the movement, like yourself have aspirations to become pastors and leaders inside of these denominations? Is that part of your hope and plan so

Redeemed Zoomer  28:29

me personally, not quite sure, but as far as a lot of people are moving? Absolutely, there are tons of prospective seminarians and actual seminarians in our movement. That's kind of why I had to keep certain names secret because people need to first get ordained before they say controversial things. Because the presbytery or the diocese could potentially reject certain people, especially we've had to conceal the identities, a lot of pastors. But we do have a lot of pastors on our side, we do have a lot of seminary people on our side. And we're starting to work with seminaries as well. For example, the Princeton seminary, a PCUSA seminary, notoriously liberal, but we're working with an evangelical fellowship of students that is at Princeton that basically provide students a safe space for if they want to, you know, go to one of these mainline seminaries, they can still have, you know, support from, you know, like minded Bible believing Christians. And I'm also working with an organization called theology matters. That's basically dedicated to promoting and training reformed pastors like biblically based reformed pastors, in places like the PCUSA. So who's supporting this? Where

Patrick Miller  29:31

are you guys getting all this time? I mean, it sounds like you're probably still in college you've released I don't know how many videos last year, you've got people that are sending out letters, sending out emails, posting things on doors? Is everybody just doing this out of the kindness of their heart or the free time? Are there ways that people can actually get involved in supporting this financially? So

Redeemed Zoomer  29:51

far, we have not solicited any financial donations if and when this expands, we might start doing that but thus far, it's all in volunteer work, every single bit of it, there were people, there was this one guy who put the feces on doors of like 60 churches in Colorado and like a freezing blizzard. We posted the Theses physically on over 1000 churches. So it was hard work. It was a community effort. No one did it all by themselves. But I was astonished at how much all these you know, college students and like grad students were willing to put in the effort to make a change in these denominations with nobody funding them. I mean, you could say I'm funded by like the YouTube ad revenue. Contrary to the opinions of some conspiracy theorists on Reddit, we are actually not funded by some sort of international cabal or whatever. It's all volunteer work.

Patrick Miller  30:44

People have actually suggested that?

Redeemed Zoomer  30:45

Yes. If only we could have that kind of funding.

Patrick Miller  30:50

Like if you know, any cabal leaders, please let me know. I'd like to get into contact with him to see what we could do together. At the end of the YouTube video that we played earlier on the show about the Rican keys to movement and operation and the 95 theses, you remind everyone that your enemies aren't other people, but the principalities and powers of darkness. Practically, what does that mean for the movement?

Redeemed Zoomer  31:15

It means that while we do use a lot of military language, because you know, more inspiring young men, young men are inspired by military language. The Bible uses military language, the Bible says we wage war, but it makes sure to say we wage war not against you know earthly powers, but spiritual powers. It's like there is definitely a demonic influence in these churches. If you have, you know, seminary professors intentionally trying to convince their students to be atheists, which happens in a lot of seminaries. The only explanation for that is that it's some sort of demonic influence. And I personally think the reason the Protestant mainline Protestant churches are attacked by the demons the most, is because they're the greatest threat. Historically, no one made more of a difference in the world than the Protestant churches, the Catholics and Orthodox did do a lot of great stuff, but nothing like the Protestants did. So a lot of times the Catholics and Orthodox are like, Oh, this shows that Protestantism is hopeless, because your churches got hijacked, ours didn't, you could interpret it like that the way I interpreted is because Satan always is most active, where there's the greatest threat to him. It's why the demons were most active in human history during the earthly life of Jesus. So there definitely is a demonic influence. I know, I'm Presbyterian. So I'm not supposed to talk about spiritual warfare, but it definitely is spiritual warfare, you know, facing all this opposition. So the military language encourages these young men to stay strong. But of course, anytime we use some sort of military language, like Reconquista is military language, we have to remind them that we are not fighting people here, the vast majority of people in mainline churches, even if their theology is bad, they're not intentionally trying to work against God's kingdom. They're just deceived, either by evil forces, or by the very small percentage of people who actually do make it their goal to subvert the main one.

Patrick Miller  33:02

How do you hold each other accountable. I mean, I've noticed a theme in your videos that you often, for example, you were responding to some progressive Christian post on Instagram. And I really appreciate this, because before he got going, he said, I shouldn't have to say this. But please don't go to these people's Instagram pages and dunk on them and attack them and make this personal. And I really appreciate that. Because of course, that's the temptation of just about anyone who hears that, but especially young men who have a fire in their belly and say, hey, I want to do something. So how do you hold each other accountable? What's that look

Redeemed Zoomer  33:33

like? So we do have some sort of leadership in our community, even though it's a fledgling community, we have, you know, experienced older pastors that advise us, they're generally not the ones doing the dirty work, but they are the spiritual advisors to this movement, we make sure that there is discipleship going on. I regularly have conversations with pastors, whether Episcopal priests or pastors in the PCA. And there have been moments where, you know, people have gotten a bit too passionate, and some of the older, more experienced men have said, Guys, you got to calm down about this, and that's what tightest says we're supposed to do like, even though this is largely a young people's movement, we do have older people on board to advise us. So I think that discipleship is very important. And largely, it's pastors and not just pastors, but also like older members of these nominations that keep us accountable.

Patrick Miller  34:24

Yeah, you know, when I first started hearing some of the language you used, my mind immediately went to some of these very online, Trad movements, Christian nationalism, Bronze Age pervert, this kind of manosphere thing that's developed over time, where it's all about being aggressive. It's all about essentially denying the fruit of the Spirit love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control what Jesus says about the kingdom and meekness and purity and righteousness and non retaliation, and that's what I was afraid of. But as I've listened to your stuff, I realized no, you're actually being very careful to say That's not what we're doing. But why do you think that movement has been so attractive in particular to young men? And what are you doing to make sure hey, we don't become that.

Redeemed Zoomer  35:08

Yeah, the whole manosphere movement, especially like the pagan parts of it, like at the end rotate stuff. They're basically exploiting something the church has failed on the church has failed to give young men like purpose and tradition, largely, especially the evangelical churches, which are, you know, by nature, often not rooted in tradition. So because of that, a lot of young men, both from the secular world and from the church, sadly, crave something to be a part of crave a tradition to fight for. And there's a lot of these, you know, kind of sketchy online personalities. LARPing as traditional pretending to you

Patrick Miller  35:46

said, LARPing just so people know, live action role playing, these are the people you see, you know, in the park, pretending like they're doing Dungeons and Dragons in real life. Just yeah, I don't know. LARPing

Redeemed Zoomer  35:54

Yeah, LARPing as tread as belonging to one of these Christian traditions. And, of course, it's a spectrum. It's like, there's a large number of people who would call themselves you know, part of the TRad movement. Some of them are basically normal people who care about tradition. Some of them are, you know, far right, Nazi pagans. So you can't use an umbrella term for all them. But largely, what we're trying to do is give an alternative to that, so that people can be part of an actual Christian renewal movement, rather than feeling like they have to join these anti Christian movements that are basically just an uncontrolled rebellion against society with no clear aim in sight, because they're really good at saying what they're against. They're not really good at saying what they're for other than their, you know, fantasy worlds that have never existed and never Well,

Patrick Miller  36:41

I think that's really good. And it's one of my major push backs against many people in that movement is that they are fantastic. Just like the left at deconstructing, they know how to burn things down. They know how to show up with matches, they know how to pull a building apart brick by brick, but what are you building? What are you actually constructing in terms of real life institutions? And again, that's why I found this movement so fascinating, because it wasn't just, you know, a discord channel or YouTube channel. You're just saying no, we're actually invested in the institutional life of the church in America. And that's a radically different orientation. And it does strike me as being different from you know, some people that I meet in Gen Z talking to people, I can't remember this. I might have been the director of the Springtide Institute. He said, you know, Gen X was cynical about institutions, millennials, were deconstructive of institutions. So we went a step further, he said, Gen Z just doesn't give a rip about institutions. They're not against them. They're not for them. They just don't have a lot of thoughts about them. Does that ring true to you? Or would you push back and say, No, I think there's something more to be said about Gen Z's orientation towards institutional life. As

Redeemed Zoomer  37:41

far as Gen Z. I think things are really changing. One of the core philosophies of our movement is being against this retreat dust mindset that a lot of Christians have held for many generations. Since the fundamentalist movement of the early 20th century. The advice in a lot of conservative Christian circles has been retreat from the city's retreat from the universities be skeptical of mainstream science retreat from the mainstream churches who everything at home homeschool home church home this home that not that we're against a strong family, we're definitely not. So recomb. Kisa is explicitly very pro institutional. And a lot of times when people romanticize the sort of Trad utopia, I asked them, Okay, other than complaining on Twitter, what are you actually doing to build that? And they never give me any answer other than, Oh, I'm going to retreat to the middle of nowhere, and only to try and wife and have 20 kids, maybe our great grandkids can build a utopia. But what are you actually doing right now to build something or to recapture something or to revive something? And they never really answer. They'll post like these Trad aesthetics of beautiful old churches. But in the meantime, the church they go to if they go to church at all, is, you know, some I don't know, cafeteria, church plant. Not that that's always wrong. But the point is, the retreat ism, that a lot of those people have results in them not accomplishing what they say they want to accomplish.

Patrick Miller  38:57

I think there's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying right now. And I'm really encouraged to hear you say it because I think this is true of my generation millennials. And I'm hoping it will be true Gen Z, the people whose legacies will last will not be those who deconstructed and burnt down. It'll be those who built something for the kingdom of God. And that is, you know, a profound encouragement. And I'm just encouraged to hear about your movement and your deep commitment to institutional life. I'd like to transition here and talk a bit more about Gen Z and what we see the Spirit of God doing. So I've had this theory, and I've written about it in several different places. I've kicked the tires on it, so to speak alongside some friends that it seems to me that the Holy Spirit is doing something inside of Gen Z. And I'm not saying there's going to be some sort of generation wide renewal or revival though in God's providence he can do whatever he wants. What I am saying is that we are seeing things like the Asbury revival. We're seeing college ministries that are growing rapidly. We're seeing Gen Z students coming in sight of churches for the first time. And so I'm just curious, what's your take? Do you think that Gen Z is primed for some sort of renewal do you think of renewal is happening right now,

Redeemed Zoomer  40:08

my view on this, I used to be very pessimistic about Gen Z simply growing up in Gen Z, seeing the widespread apostasy, even from a lot of Gen Z, people who were raised in very strong Christian families and communities, even the friends who converted me to Christianity, not like they were trying to, most of them have actually committed apostasy and have left the faith. For a while, it was very cynical about Gen Z. So I think for the most of Gen Z, I'm pretty pessimistic, but I also do see a small subsection of Gen Z that is committed to theology and tradition as sort of a reaction against the rest of Gen Z. So there is that as well. So as to whether I'm optimistic or pessimistic, I'm actually like a conditional list. I think that what Gen Z suffers from is they suffer from not belonging to something larger, and they're craving that they're craving, like a tradition to belong to. I think if Gen Z can revive the traditional churches, and in America that's going to need to involve reviving traditional Protestant churches. If they can revive the traditional Protestant churches, then I'm optimistic about Gen Z. But if they don't, and if Christianity in America continues to be a divided mess of a million billion denominations with no sort of unified identity, then I think the nonstop decline of religion in America is going to continue. Gen Z is going to continue to be the least religious generation most depressed, most suicidal, and it's just going to keep getting worse for Gen Z's children and grandchildren. So part of the reason I started the Reconquista is because I realized, eventually, after seeing my friends commit apostasy, I couldn't not do it. The day I started my page was the day when I found out that one of my closest friends who helped me become Christian left the faith she went from Christian to leftist. And my name on Instagram is aside from her name. Zoomer is from leftist a Christian, I wanted to show the process can be reversed. But I think I'm an anomaly of Gen Z. I think if we retake these traditional institutions, I will stop being an anomaly.

Patrick Miller  42:11

What do you think churches need to do to participate in what you're describing,

Redeemed Zoomer  42:15

churches need to first of all, stop with the clown shows a lot of churches to try and appeal to Gen Z, they want to try and seem like hip or cool by having I don't know, I will do the regulative principle of worship. So a lot of these, you know, clown shows about and having some sort of pop skits or like, I don't know, tick tock challenge in church, that's not going to do anything, they can spot that that's fake, what they need is something traditional, I would say, even if you do a contemporary music, bring back traditional hymns. In addition to that, instead of planting a new contemporary church every five minutes, maybe try and send people into old historic churches, because that has just the same effect all except you can actually work with existing resources. So it's actually easier in many ways. And I would also say, don't try and dumb down Christianity, don't try to reduce it to the bare essentials just to appeal to more people. People actually are attracted to rich intellectual tradition. So don't be afraid to talk about, you know, deep, historic classical theology in church. And that's what I've seen in college ministries, a lot of the college ministries that try to seem like bland and inoffensive and have like game nights. They don't have nearly as much of a transformative effect on people as the ones that talk about, you know, deep theology and tradition do

Patrick Miller  43:33

back to the 95 theses. There's a reason that many of these historic Protestant denominations exist. And those reasons are both historical, political, geographical, but theological as well. And there are long standing theological disagreements between those traditions, has it been challenging for you to work across denominational lines? I mean, the idea 300 years ago that you would have you know, mainline while 300 be too long, let's say 100 years ago, that you'd have mainline Presbyterians and Baptist and Lutherans and Episcopalians all coming side by side would have seem ludicrous.

Redeemed Zoomer  44:10

Yeah, well, I think someone said like when a madman is at the door feuding brothers become friends. So it's like back when the entire world was Christian, it made sense that, you know, Lutheranism Calvinists would fight over these denominational issues. But in the modern world, all of our churches are facing the exact same problem. And everyone can agree that atheism is a much bigger disagreement than, you know, Calvinist versus Arminian, or a Lutheran versus reformed view of the sacraments. So we are aware of our differences, but surprisingly, it's been easy because the religion all of us are competing against is the same religion and it's liberalism. Basically, it's like Unitarian Universalist liberalism that has hijacked all of our churches. So it's been very easy to find unity. And I've been very encouraged to see like Episcopalians and Baptists and Presbyterians, Lutherans praying for each other and working together while still becoming more entrenched in their own denominational traditions rather than just adopting some bland, lowest common denominator version of Christianity.

Patrick Miller  45:17

Have you had much resistance from Gen Z years who are inside of these denominations who say, Hey, we're not with these people, we like our churches the way that they are.

Redeemed Zoomer  45:27

So we've had resistance from like the left and the right. Generally, the only resistance we've had from the left is, you know, the much older generations that are in the higher positions of leadership in these denominations. resistance from the right we get a lot of people have a very retreated attitude. And they think we need to just abandon the mainline churches and split off because we should not be any institutions where God forbid they have women doing anything. A lot of people have been saying that. And we've in our Rican keister community, we understand that there are more important issues than whether women can sneeze in church without their husbands permission. So because of that we have experienced resistance from the left. But that's generally not from Gen Z. The reason is because the Gen Z left is not involved in church. Sure, maybe they'll attend a church once a year because their family does, maybe they'll approve of certain liberal practices of the church, they're not going to get involved because Gen Z has zero social obligation to go to church. So that means the only Gen Z people who are like really passionate about the church are going to be theologically conservative, with almost no exceptions.

Patrick Miller  46:36

It's clear that you don't just have the restoration of these denominations in view, you also talk a lot about the transformation of culture. And you suggest that retaking these historic mainline denominations is the key to that mission. We've also suggested that evangelicals and various denominations that broke off from the mainline have been sidelined culturally. So if you don't mind, I want to push back. I'm kind of curious to get your take how you respond to this. Here's my pushback. So first is this. evangelicals are the largest voting bloc in the United States. And even though we spent a lot of time on this particular podcast, showing that evangelical influence and politics has often been misguided, it's undeniable that they do have a tremendous amount of influence both culturally and politically. We've had evangelical president's cabinet members, senators, representatives, the current speaker of the house is committed Evangelical, but it's also true to say that evangelical public theology is thin. In fact, it's not just thin, it's absent, and evangelicals seem to take their cues from the right more than the right takes its cues from evangelicals. But on the other side of things, mainline public theology and influence is at the current moment, almost next to nothing, you can look back to the peak of their influence in the 50s and 60s, when we had the highest church attendance in American history, and the vast majority of that was inside of the mainline and we can desire a return. But if I'm being honest, sometimes that feels more like nostalgia, than practicality. Arguably, Catholics are the only Christian group in the US that have retained and grown of robust public theology, and public voice and public influence. And so while I also value the transformation of society and public theology, I'm not convinced that winning the mainline back will do much of anything. If anything, I've thought that helping evangelicals develop a robust public theology has a better practical chance of changing our current US polity. So I'm curious, you've obviously thought a lot about this. How do you respond to that critique? How would winning back these historic denominations to Orthodoxy change a public sphere that they currently have very little voice in?

Redeemed Zoomer  48:43

Right, so first of all, I agree that the only churches that have a strong public theology and are having a positive cultural influence are the Roman Catholics. But I think the reason that is because the Roman Catholic Church is an institutionally rooted church that has not abandoned its principles. The Evangelical churches are not institutionally rooted, and the main lines are institutionally rooted, but they've abandoned their principles. And the consequence is neither of those really have the same level of influence on culture that historic Protestant churches did, like when I say influence on culture. I'm not just talking about elections. Elections are based on raw numbers. But politics is really downstream of culture. There's been a lot of Republican victories recently, but that's done jack squat to stop the secularization of America, because both parties will eventually follow the culture. For example, 15 years ago, both parties were against gay marriage. Now they're both for it. So Democrat versus Republican doesn't matter at all. And that's why I say we're not talking about political conservatism here. So there are a lot of evangelical voters. But generally evangelicals are the most underrepresented group in cultural institutions like the major universities, the way Christians used to have influence on the culture was founding the top universities. Harvard was founded by Puritans. Princeton was founded by Presbyterians and like Duke was founded by Methodists But these days, evangelicals are the least represented in like the top boards of these major universities or in like the media, or the entertainment, the only Christians that really have a substantial presence while there's mainline Protestants, but they often don't believe in Christianity. It's often Roman Catholics, the Roman Catholic universities are the only like top ranked universities that are still, in some sense run by devout Christians. So we understand the mainline has lost its cultural influence. But we don't think that Protestants overall can build back the same level of cultural influence as the Protestants who basically founded Western European society, unless we revive our institutional rootedness. Now, there are some people who say you need to rebuild brand new institutions. But that takes a very, very long time. Christians have built up the kingdom for generations upon generations, generations of faithful Protestants have like donated their entire lives work to slowly building up these great institutions. And I don't want to dishonor their legacy by simply throwing that all away. So I think what we really need to do is we need to recombine evangelicals and mainline errs, we need the evangelical people inside the mainline institutions. The end goal of Reconquista is a reunification of the mainline churches with all of their offshore groups. We have again, this is another idea for my girlfriend. We would like the EPC and the PCA and Ico to all be reunited under the umbrella of PCUSA once we basically revive the PCUSA and clear it of heresy, so I'm agreeing with you,

Patrick Miller  51:36

are you really sure you want the PCA inside the BCS? I mean, they can fight as much as anybody else can.

Redeemed Zoomer  51:41

I mean, there's problems in every denomination. I went to

Patrick Miller  51:44

a PCA seminary. I love the PTA, but it's a bold vision. The


Redeemed Zoomer  51:48

PCA is my favorite Baptist denomination. So I'll say that. We're gonna have to cut that for the podcast, You're offending people that leave it. I say it all the time. Anyway, you've obviously

Patrick Miller  51:59

never met a straight confessional list in the PCA. That's

Redeemed Zoomer  52:03

mostly a joke. It was a funny joke. We need to basically reunite Protestantism. It's like Catholics have a point. When they ridicule Protestants for having like 40 million denominations. It used to be that they were like 10 Protestant denominations, it really does not look good if Protestantism is so divided. So the end goal is not like saying screw you evangelicals were bring back the main line, the end goal is reversing the problems that caused the Evangelicals to leave in the first place so they can come back.

Patrick Miller  52:32

I love your vision and your passion for retaking historic institutions that as you said, Christian men and women have quite literally sweat over and bled over to make, I want to shift the conversation and a totally different note, which is online ministry, you're leading this movement and doing this ministry in a fashion that is noticeably different from that which has preceded it historically. And it's not to say that there haven't been Christian youtubers talking about theology and denominations. that's been happening since probably YouTube started. But it is to say that you're actually using online content to drive real world behavior of real world movement. So I mean, maybe there's something you put a lot of thought into. And maybe it's not. But how do you think Christians and churches should be using online media and content in ministry? Do you think the internet is going to play a major role in the future of Christianity?

Redeemed Zoomer  53:23

Well, yeah, it's simple. The internet was meant to be a means it was never meant to be an end. So what online ministry should be is basically a way for the real church to communicate its ideas. It was never supposed to be a substitute for church. And a lot of people think, you know, online, the internet is a substitute for the church. Another thing that I think the internet is useful for is the sharing of information. For the longest time, people had no idea what Eastern Orthodox theology was, now that the Eastern Orthodox Jews have the internet, they've been able to convert mass numbers of people, not even by convincing them to be orthodox simply by telling them what their theology is. That's a unique tactic I use, I never try and convince, I don't want to say never, my videos aren't preachy, I don't really try to convince people to be Christian. I simply go in depth about what Christian theology is, and then let the Holy Spirit convert whoever he wants to. Because a lot of people, they just don't know what Christians teach. They don't know what specifically Reformed theology teaches. I noticed that if Christianity is really set apart, and we need cultural institutions to do that, if Christianity really is set apart, we don't need to try and convince people to check us out. They're going to ask questions. So what we should really be doing is use the internet just to communicate what the Church teaches. But the goal of that it's a means to an end. And the end is people actually showing up at the door in these churches in these real physical buildings. So the internet is nothing but a place for the churches to communicate to people what they believe so many people didn't know what the different denominations believed. That's why I made a video explaining What the different denominations believe so many people don't know what Presbyterian theology teaches. So I make videos explaining Presbyterian theology. And I think it's been very successful when other churches have done the same. Yeah. And

Patrick Miller  55:09

some of those videos have had over a million views. So it's clear that people are asking the question, and you're providing a compelling answer. What I appreciate is you tend to find people who want one or the other, either I want the online church experience, and the internet is going to replace church for me in some fashion, which I think is nonsensical. But on the other hand, you have more institutionally rooted people who say the internet is in competition with my institution, and therefore I need to be I'm not just critical of it, but flee from it. And I think what you're suggesting is exactly what we've tried to do with our own online ministry, which is an omni channel model, it's saying we can actually use online content to drive people towards in person human institutionalized behavior. And that's a model that sounds like is connecting with a lot of the Gen Z people that you're communicating with via YouTube. And so I think it's something that people really need to pay attention to, and churches is denying that either or, the other thing about your videos is your aesthetic, which I have to assume is chosen, right? Your aesthetic is Lo Fi. And I get the sense that you're often trying to make people maybe kind of recall the aesthetic of memes and that world on the internet. Is that an intentional choice? Or is that look, I only know how to make slides. I'm just doing what I'm able to do on YouTube. Like, why is that the aesthetic that you've chosen for this particular channel?

Redeemed Zoomer  56:25

You're giving me too much credit, saying it's intentional, saying I'm putting some deep aesthetic thought into this. I'm kind of a boomer in many ways, both in my you know, social views, and in my technological abilities, I don't have the ability to create content that looks professional. But what I noticed over time, is that people seem to, you know, follow what I'm saying better when I had a very minimalist approach to aesthetics. My inspiration was YouTube channels, like Bill Wirtz, or over simplified, who explained history in the most distilled and simplified fashion possible, it still manages to communicate a lot of information. So that's why I've used very, very simple derpy looking graphics. And I always use Comic Sans in my videos. Because if you have like a professional looking slides with a lot of you know, information there, you know, my generation has the attention span of a toaster, they're not reading all that. But if you have just like a few words, in Comic Sans, they're like, oh, I can read that. And then if it's interesting, they're gonna keep reading. So I'm like the opposite of unintentional but you just explained a lot of reasons of why. I'm the opposite of non denominational churches, non denominational churches, they try to make their online content look very fancy, but they have minimalist church architecture. I favor beautiful church architecture, but online content to be minimalist.

Patrick Miller  57:52

Oh, I love it. I love it. That is a great comparison. Most of the content that you do is about denominations and systematic theology. We've got a bit of apologetics in there too, but noticeably missing our now granted you've put a lot of videos and maybe I've missed them our videos on more cultural issues. Do you weigh in on politics on hot button cultural issues? And if so why? If not why? I once

Redeemed Zoomer  58:16

made a political Compass test video where I took the political Compass test, it was mostly just filled with a bunch of jokes, like me, saying that everyone who puts pineapple on pizza needs to be deported to Delaware. My girlfriend made me take down that video. So I generally don't focus on politics. When I was a leftist. I focused a lot on politics. But what I realized eventually is politics is downstream of culture and culture is downstream of theology. So my biggest focus is theology. I do put a focus on culture. You know, some people on the left have accused me of being a culture warrior, simply because I say that church should have an impact on culture, which is what Christians have always believed until very recently. So I do talk about cultural issues. I do talk a lot about leftism, because leftism isn't just a political issue. It's also a cultural philosophy. I talk about that a lot. In terms of actual politics, like who you're going to vote for Democrat Republican. I intentionally avoid that, because I think that's a distraction. I think that's addressing the symptoms rather than the disease. As John Calvin said, when God judges a nation, he gives it wicked rulers, the nation needs to see not just a spiritual revival, but an ecclesiological and theological revival of traditional churches. And I think the political issues we're seeing will sort of solve themselves. If people's hearts go back to God. So that's why you're right. Political content, like you know, daily wire, you know, Ben Shapiro, Prager, you content, not that I'm entirely dissing anyone who's into that, but that's not what I'm that's not what I'm about. Gaming

Patrick Miller  59:44

also plays a role which we've talked about earlier. Is the Minecraft thing. Is that just a hook? Is it an aesthetic a stick? Or do you think that you know, it's important to reach Zoomers Gen Z? By connecting with content that they're already connecting with him just helped me understand the choice there. And I'm not anti video games, it's gonna sound like I am I'm very far from that.

Redeemed Zoomer  1:00:05

I'm probably the most anti video game Minecraft YouTuber there is. For me it's not about attracting or reaching people with video games at all. I don't think it's about that at all. That wouldn't make videos while I play like, fortnight or something. I think most of those other games are stupid, frankly. And they're just a waste of time and they waste young man's energy and desire for adventure. Minecraft is different because with Minecraft, you can build things. So it's more philosophical. The reason I play Minecraft, while talking about theology is because building the church and the kingdom of God is what we need to do in real life. Part of it was also because I thought people would rather look at me building cool things than looking at my face, I thought that might be a bit more interesting. But it's also because it's a metaphor for what we should be doing in real life. And there are countless ways in which Minecraft can be metaphors for real life. I've even thought of, you know, arguments for God's existence using Minecraft. Like, for example, like to Minecraft sheep arguing whether Minecraft has a designer, because they've never seen a designer. So I think that building churches in Minecraft and not just building churches, but you know, building schools and hospitals in Minecraft, connected to churches. That's a metaphor for what we should be doing in real life. And also for people who desire to have you know, traditional beauty insurance but don't have access to it. building beautiful churches in Minecraft is a way to basically share the beauty of Christianity in a way that's a lot more understandable for beginners.

Patrick Miller  1:01:27

That's interesting. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Would you just mind praying for anyone listening to this?

Redeemed Zoomer  1:01:34

Yeah, sure. Your Heavenly Father, thank you for gathering us here. Today. I'm praying for everyone who is looking for guidance in our ever changing culture. Pray that you work through whatever means possible, whether the work of myself and my friends or the work of all who are working to spread your kingdom. Help show people that there is hope and empower them by your Holy Spirit to fight the demons of our age, and build up your kingdom for your glory. Amen.

Patrick Miller  1:01:59

Amen. Thanks so much for being with us today. If people want to follow what you're doing, how can they follow? You are here more about Operation rekening keister? So

Redeemed Zoomer  1:02:09

I'm redeemed Zoomer on Instagram and YouTube. However, there's a lot more to the Recon keister than me. So if you want to just learn about that, if you're kind of bored with me, but you want to learn what we're doing with that, just go to Operation recon That's our official website. We also have links to all the denomination specific websites of our allies in the mainline Protestant denominations.

Patrick Miller  1:02:29

Fantastic. I would encourage anyone to go check that out go read the 95 theses. There's different ones in different denominations. I read through the one for Presbyterians, because I'm Presbyterian myself. And I think if you read it, one, you might learn some things that you don't realize about those denominations that such things even need to be said. But number two, you know, I hope people will read these and be encouraged that we have a generation of young people who are seeking to renew and reform our churches. That is a beautiful, beautiful thing to see. So I want to encourage you and what you're doing and I'm going to be praying that God uses it to do good and these denominations. Thanks so much for being with us today.

Redeemed Zoomer  1:03:05

Thank you, God bless. Thanks

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